Left handed setup

[Kirstin]

13 minutes ago, Eyal said:

At first I did not understand what made this change, then I realized that my right foot (which was responsible for opening the HH until few days ago) helped my left foot and did the same motion synchronously.

Haha.  Well any start is a good start.

[Eyal]

Today I had a very unique practice session.

For 2 hours I put the click on 60bpm (8th notes) and did not stop it.

For 20 minutes - I played a simple 8th notes groove of

* Bass drum on 1, 3, & of 3

* Open the HH on the & of 4

* Crash on 1

Then for 10 minutes - finger control exercises on both german and french grips.

Then again 20 minutes of the same groove and so on.

 

During these boring loops I found some things:

1 . I need to think again before opening the HH and before closing it.

2 . My right leg is weak and still does not know what's best for it (heel up or heel down).

3 . My right hand suddenly hit the snare differently.

I figured out that now it leans on my right leg 🙂. This is a new privilege 🤣.

Before the change, my right hand also played the snare though it could not lean on my right leg which was resposible for the HH control pedal.

Now my right hand is more calm and hits the snare more gently and remains close to it (waiting the future ghost note).

 

I have started the BT on April (stopped at lesson 20 - before doing this change).

My original plan was doing it all over again after completing it.

Well, I restarted it already and it feels like it is going to be way more thorough than just a second time 🐢

 

[Kirstin]

18 hours ago, Eyal said:

Today I had a very unique practice session.

For 2 hours I put the click on 60bpm (8th notes) and did not stop it.

For 20 minutes - I played a simple 8th notes groove of

* Bass drum on 1, 3, & of 3

* Open the HH on the & of 4

* Crash on 1

Then for 10 minutes - finger control exercises on both german and french grips.

Then again 20 minutes of the same groove and so on.

 

During these boring loops I found some things:

1 . I need to think again before opening the HH and before closing it.

2 . My right leg is weak and still does not know what's best for it (heel up or heel down).

3 . My right hand suddenly hit the snare differently.

I figured out that now it leans on my right leg 🙂. This is a new privilege 🤣.

Before the change, my right hand also played the snare though it could not lean on my right leg which was resposible for the HH control pedal.

Now my right hand is more calm and hits the snare more gently and remains close to it (waiting the future ghost note).

 

I have started the BT on April (stopped at lesson 20 - before doing this change).

My original plan was doing it all over again after completing it.

Well, I restarted it already and it feels like it is going to be way more thorough than just a second time 🐢

 

@Eyal Do you feel like things are starting to improve at this point? Hands and feet growing more accustomed to the new style and layout?

Regarding that drumming example video I posted for you, I've currently set myself two challenges, though not at the same time.

Challenge 1.  Now that I have a pattern of voices that supports OH playing, I now need to play it proficiently the way @Stephen does in his video to gain all the benefits. Meaning no gaps between while adding voices. His instruction is a timing exercise as much as it is about adding voices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv3f1Emdn2w&t=16s This will take slowing way down and I'll need to change my rule from beat 3 to beat 1. Otherwise, the voices on grid and off grid should stay the same. 

Challenge 2. Come off the hats and play the left crash/Ride with my left hand instead of the right. Again, since Stephen is coming off the HH with his right hand, I should also challenge myself to take my left hand off the hats and play another voice. One I get that, I may continue and add the left Tom to left hand.

I let you know how THAT goes, maybe in a month or two. 😰  

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

6 hours ago, Kirstin said:

I let you know how THAT goes, maybe in a month or two. 

Good luck @Kirstin. I am curious to know how you progress with it.

[Eyal]

While playing opened (left hand on HH + Crash - right hand on snare) I realized a problem.

Playing a groove when 1 on the crash there is no problem. The left hand does the work 🙂

When playing a fill with 16th notes the on the toms while the right leads - the 'a' of 4 is played by the left hand. The left hand needs to go to the crash on the 1.

@Stephen Which hand should play the crash on 1 in this case? The crash on the left side of the kit.

@Stephen can you describe what are the nuances which should be considered when playing open handed?

Edited January 27, 2023 by Eyal

[Kirstin]

I know you asked Stephen about this but there are two solutions I use. 

1. Crash with the free hand.

2. Paradiddle on the last drum to free up the hand I want to use. RLRR. This is the method I naturally tend to use and love it because my left hand is already in transit to the crash before I've finished the RR. It was a happy accident that started one day and I thought it so brilliant I worked at it until it is almost instinctual now.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kirstin

[David]

2 hours ago, Eyal said:

While playing opened (left hand on HH + Crash - right hand on snare) I realized a problem.

Playing a groove when 1 on the crash there is no problem. The left hand does the work 🙂

When playing a fill with 16th notes the on the toms while the right leads - the 'a' of 4 is played by the left hand. The left hand needs to go to the crash on the 1.

@Stephen Which hand should play the crash on 1 in this case? The crash on the left side of the kit.

@Stephen can you describe what are the nuances which should be considered when playing open handed?

Can you crash with the right-hand?  Not sure I'm understanding the issue, is it the position of the cymbal?

[Eyal]

1 hour ago, Kirstin said:

it so brilliant

It definitely is

[Eyal]

Just now, David said:

Can you crash with the right-hand?  Not sure I'm understanding the issue, is it the position of the cymbal?

HH and crash on on the left side.

Open handed so the left hand is playing 8th notes on HH and crash.

[Kirstin]

39 minutes ago, Eyal said:

It definitely is

Here's my full hand twister. It's only this screwed up because I have my rack toms reversed and I tend to start fills left handed or reach for the first tom left handed (or maybe I'm not right in the head). IF I get up to a 16th note run, I go: Snare LRLR or RLRR > 10" LRLR > 12" LRLL > Floor Tom RLRR > left crash/HH/left ride.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

13 minutes ago, Kirstin said:

Snare LRLR or RLRR > 10" LRLR > 12" LRLL > Floor Tom RLRR > left crash/HH/left ride

This is much above my current skill 🙂

I have started learning the push / pull a week ago.

My left hand (my strong hand) is ok only on german grip but only on 80bpm 8th notes, I still did not get the motion of the french grip.

My right hand is still stuggling with keeping the fulcrum steady. My thumb is too loose and I do not see improvement.

Playing doubles is a dream.

[David]

I'd cheat and put an extra crash on the other side 🙂

[Stephen]

5 hours ago, Eyal said:

While playing opened (left hand on HH + Crash - right hand on snare) I realized a problem.

Playing a groove when 1 on the crash there is no problem. The left hand does the work 🙂

When playing a fill with 16th notes the on the toms while the right leads - the 'a' of 4 is played by the left hand. The left hand needs to go to the crash on the 1.

@Stephen Which hand should play the crash on 1 in this case? The crash on the left side of the kit.

@Stephen can you describe what are the nuances which should be considered when playing open handed?

I would crash with whichever hand you are more comfortable with.

Well, you're brinigng up some of the nuances. Really it's all about renegotiating the roles of the limbs. If you are open handed, a lot of times you have to crash with that left hand. Or put a crash on the left and right side. Or a ride on the left or right side. It's all about just looking at the physical layout of the kit and adjusting your playing to compensate for that.

[Kirstin]

2 hours ago, Eyal said:

This is much above my current skill 🙂

I have started learning the push / pull a week ago.

My left hand (my strong hand) is ok only on german grip but only on 80bpm 8th notes, I still did not get the motion of the french grip.

My right hand is still stuggling with keeping the fulcrum steady. My thumb is too loose and I do not see improvement.

Playing doubles is a dream.

I play mostly german/american position, and only just now trying to get a handle on french. My doubles are a complete laugh. Paradidles is about the only thing I've gotten a decent handle on but with limited scope. I will say, I love Moeller. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:34 PM, Kirstin said:

2. Paradiddle on the last drum to free up the hand I want to use. RLRR. This is the method I naturally tend to use and love it because my left hand is already in transit to the crash before I've finished the RR. It was a happy accident that started one day and I thought it so brilliant I worked at it until it is almost instinctual now.

@Kirstin thank you. I use your paraddidle hack and it actually solved my problem. Of course, I need to pracrice my doubles for above 80 bpm. Though it is a great incentive to work on doubles and paradidles.

 

Quick question:

I realized that leading with the right hand on fills when the first note is on the downbeat is native.

Though when the fill started on the downbeat somehow my left hand want to lead.

 

For example:

1  &  2  &  3  &  4  -  & a

  G   r   o  o  v  e   -  Fill

I assume it happens because the left hand wants to continue its motion on 8th notes.

 

I wonder if it happens to other open handed players.

@Kirstin I assume you have some brilliant ideas for this case as well 😉

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Eyal

[David]

Sometimes I'll want to reverse the direction of a fill and ad a dbl stroke to reverse it say 16th note fill over 2 bars

BAR1 SNARE: RLRL; TOM1: RLRL; TOM2: RLRL TOM3: RLRLRLLR TOM2: LRLR; TOM1: LRLR; SNARE LRLR

OR

 BAR1 SNARE: RLRL; TOM1: RLRL; TOM2: RLRL TOM3: RLLR TOM2: LRLR; TOM1: LRLR; SNARE LRLRLRLR

So I insert a double stroke to travel back through the kit. and come out on the left hand to crash the LH cymbal in this case however I would say it would depend on what cymbal I want to hit as to what hand I'll break from.  

Depending which way you are going dictates the hand you start on.  I might come off the beat and play from the floor tom.. LHLH etc straight off the snare.  It's really useful to practice transitioning a roll from say the snare to the floor and vice-versa to develop smooth movements.

I don't think open or closed handed playing affects this as there are a lot of benefits to the ambidextrous development of single/double strokes fills, the challenge I am having is makng it grove when I swap hands over 🙂 

 

[Eyal]

32 minutes ago, David said:

Sometimes I'll want to reverse the direction of a fill and ad a dbl stroke to reverse it say 16th note fill over 2 bars

BAR1 SNARE: RLRL; TOM1: RLRL; TOM2: RLRL TOM3: RLRLRLLR TOM2: LRLR; TOM1: LRLR; SNARE LRLR

OR

 BAR1 SNARE: RLRL; TOM1: RLRL; TOM2: RLRL TOM3: RLLR TOM2: LRLR; TOM1: LRLR; SNARE LRLRLRLR

So I insert a double stroke to travel back through the kit. and come out on the left hand to crash the LH cymbal in this case however I would say it would depend on what cymbal I want to hit as to what hand I'll break from.  

Depending which way you are going dictates the hand you start on.  I might come off the beat and play from the floor tom.. LHLH etc straight off the snare.  It's really useful to practice transitioning a roll from say the snare to the floor and vice-versa to develop smooth movements.

I don't think open or closed handed playing affects this as there are a lot of benefits to the ambidextrous development of single/double strokes fills, the challenge I am having is makng it grove when I swap hands over 🙂 

 

@David this is a very useful insight. Thank you!

I wonder if these transitioning can be improvised or the drummer actually chunks them and prepare them ahead of time in practice time.

[David]

2 hours ago, Eyal said:

@David this is a very useful insight. Thank you!

I wonder if these transitioning can be improvised or the drummer actually chunks them and prepare them ahead of time in practice time.

From my point of view once you get used (practice) to inserting a double stroke inside the fill and it becomes a tool, then improvisation van happen as you use it subconsciously.

[Kirstin]

3 hours ago, Eyal said:

@Kirstin I assume you have some brilliant ideas for this case as well 😉

Haha. Lets not get hasty. I think I actually have less time on the kit than you hehe. I'm new enough that I don't know what you mean with your question. I'm also new enough to probably fail at explaining how I do things. I also can't play doubles yet. I have a lot else to learn first.

I think part of it is that you and I are coming at this from two completely different mindsets. I guess since I started with my left hand on the HH from day one, I've had time to get this questioning Right Hand/ Left Hand, Left hand/Right Hand out of my system. I realized one day that I was spending more time agonizing over which hand to use than I was putting into playing!

After that I went all Buddhist and spiritual about it and like the little bald Matrix kid I said, "There is no spoon." Meaning, I have no left hand or right hand. I only have success or less success. I KNOW.  I'm a weirdo!

I guess if you want a window into my madness, I look at it like this:  I play. I have a particular layout. I have divisions in time. At any given moment in time, it's the free hand that leads and it matters not to me if it is the right hand or the left hand. It stops being a problem and becomes a creative opportunity. Everything I learn with a right hand lead I also teach myself with a left hand lead because you get two slightly different stylistic results that way. 

Also, I do what @David so wisely mentioned.  I break everything into small chunks. I take small, two measure snippets of fills and experiment with them. Take the Pat Boone Debbie Boone fill, for example. It is small and staggered and can be played on whatever collection of voices you want.  Change it up. Add to it. Only use the Pat Boon half. Then only use the Debbie Boone half. 

Now, here's the fun bit if you want to take me up on this challenge. Perform the Pat Boone Debbie Boone in whatever variation of your choosing that I mentioned above. Practice it with a right hand lead coming out of the groove. Then practice it with a left hand lead. Note that they are naturally a bit different. Now you have two slight variations of the same fill. Practice until you can willingly choose a right or left lead comfortably.

End goal is to formulate a slightly different set of voices for each Pat Boone Debbie Boone that fit specifically with the left hand lead.  Then do it again for the right hand lead. Just with all the variations you can do with the Pat Boone Debbie Boone you have hours of fun adapting them both ways. 

I really don't have any other way to explain how I am doing what I do. I lack the vocabulary as yet.  

 

[Kirstin]

P.S. I should also mention, and I also think I said this before, I don't like the old fashioned linear around the kit fills. I like staggered fills that dance around the kit with a lot of single sticking, and back beat fills that also use a lot of single sticking. Which are a whole lot easier to adapt to using either hand. So I can't say as I have come up against the problems you are having. And I think by the time I do push myself into learning those linear types of fills, I'll have enough facility with the right hand that they won't be any issue.

Also watch this guy.  He's my number one guiding force in methodology, because he has so many videos where you can clearly see what he is doing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y9Vk7VeSog 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Kirstin

[Kirstin]

15 hours ago, Eyal said:

Though when the fill started on the downbeat somehow my left hand want to lead.

 

For example:

1  &  2  &  3  &  4  -  & a

  G   r   o  o  v  e   -  Fill

I assume it happens because the left hand wants to continue its motion on 8th notes.

 

You know what? I think I just figured out what you are talking about. and this is my last response tonight because I'm about to away with me to bed for some well earned ZzzZ.

If I am guessing correctly, you are referring to what I call the Ringo Problem to amuse myself. He's a lefty on a righty layout who leads with his left hand on nearly every fill he initiates with his rack tom. I see him get in there with his right hand once in a while, but in his youth he was definitely strongly left hand lead. 

There's always a delay going into his fills that is part of his signature sound. He says that delay is there because he needs that half beat to get his right arm out of his way so that he can initiate the fill with his left. 

I'm not so sure it is exclusively a problem for someone like him who plays crossed over. I have noticed that when I come off the HH with my left hand, I sometimes have that delay and sometimes I don't. I guess next time I am on I will take a hard look at what I am doing that results in a missed half beat or no missed beat. I'll get back to you.  Ni ni. 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Kirstin
initiate, not imitate

[David]

7 hours ago, Kirstin said:

P.S. I should also mention, and I also think I said this before, I don't like the old fashioned linear around the kit fills. I like staggered fills that dance around the kit with a lot of single sticking, and back beat fills that also use a lot of single sticking. Which are a whole lot easier to adapt to using either hand. So I can't say as I have come up against the problems you are having. And I think by the time I do push myself into learning those linear types of fills, I'll have enough facility with the right hand that they won't be any issue.

Also watch this guy.  He's my number one guiding force in methodology, because he has so many videos where you can clearly see what he is doing.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y9Vk7VeSog 

 

 

I agree with this, I think he linear pattern round the kit fills are really only a facility builder and in certain cases a dramatic statement in a song.  @Kirstin have you watched the KH session we had on here, it's great, link below. The video you link to is brilliant and, for me, it's more to do with his musicality than speed or facility, his phasing and the fun he is having isn't based on technical pathology but the output.  It's interesting discussing this and then watching the video and seeing how he plays... his approach is of a complete instrument, his hands build phrase and often the ostinato planned by his right hand as well as his left, it's not about patterns much more about phrases... I hope that makes sense. I am trying to do things like this in my solos which are pretty bad atm, but I'm deliberately reaching beyond my skills. 

I've also been very married to sticks and I want to break that, I love the use of the hand on the head Claus does.  I want to break my habit of always having the same thing in both hands, next solo I post I might try that, see how brave I am 🙂 .  It doubles or triples the amount of colour/voice you have under your hands.

https://www.stephensdrumshed.com/courses/qa-calls/3-8-22-qa-w-claus-hessler/

Edited February 1, 2023 by David

[Eyal]

Thank you @Kirstin.

Waiting for your updates 🙂

[David]

8 hours ago, Kirstin said:

There's always a delay going into his fills that is part of his signature sound. He says that delay is there because he needs that half beat to get his right arm out of his way so that he can imitate the fill with his left. 

I'm not so sure it is exclusively a problem for someone like him who plays crossed over. I have noticed that when I come off the HH with my left hand, I sometimes have that delay and sometimes I don't. I guess next time I am on I will take a hard look at what I am doing that results in a missed half beat or no missed beat. I'll get back to you.  Ni ni. 

This is brilliant and I think it might explain why Ringo fills contain natural/beautiful tension and anticipation and instead of trying to drill it out of itself he accepted it and the rest is history.  He is a phrase-god 🙂  TY @Kirstin

[Kirstin]

4 hours ago, David said:

I agree with this, I think he linear pattern round the kit fills are really only a facility builder and in certain cases a dramatic statement in a song.  @Kirstin have you watched the KH session we had on here, it's great, link below. The video you link to is brilliant and, for me, it's more to do with his musicality than speed or facility, his phasing and the fun he is having isn't based on technical pathology but the output.  It's interesting discussing this and then watching the video and seeing how he plays... his approach is of a complete instrument, his hands build phrase and often the ostinato planned by his right hand as well as his left, it's not about patterns much more about phrases... I hope that makes sense. I am trying to do things like this in my solos which are pretty bad atm, but I'm deliberately reaching beyond my skills. 

I've also been very married to sticks and I want to break that, I love the use of the hand on the head Claus does.  I want to break my habit of always having the same thing in both hands, next solo I post I might try that, see how brave I am 🙂 .  It doubles or triples the amount of colour/voice you have under your hands.

https://www.stephensdrumshed.com/courses/qa-calls/3-8-22-qa-w-claus-hessler/

Thank you. I will watch this on my lunch break. 

Claus is where I am trying to go, to be that free and fluid with either hand. I discovered him way back at the very start, though I didn't quite take him as seriously as Simon Phillips or Carter Beauford until about 3 months into it when I discovered how much I could learn from Claus. I would love to take a few lessons with him down the road when I'm in a better position knowledge-wise to really absorb what he has to teach.
 

2 hours ago, David said:

This is brilliant and I think it might explain why Ringo fills contain natural/beautiful tension and anticipation and instead of trying to drill it out of itself he accepted it and the rest is history.  He is a phrase-god 🙂  TY @Kirstin

Ringo is definitely the center of my heart and I wish I had an ounce of his feels when it comes to how he performs fills and builds tension. I want to be a Claus/Ringo love child hahaha. I like all the drummers who are more on feels than technicality, who sit in the music and build phrases that are as much a part of the music as they are the rhythm.

Even though Ringo plays rock, he treats it more like a classical movement, and he definitely treats his drums as a tonal instrument by tuning them to whatever key the song is in. If you haven't noticed his tuning, one or more of his drums will be tuned to the dominant, another the tonic, another the subdominant, etc., etc. until his kit becomes almost a chord.  I think one of the coolest compliments I've ever heard of him is, "he was the first drummer to make the drums sing."

Edited February 1, 2023 by Kirstin