Left handed setup

[Eyal]

My setup now is morrored i.e. HH and crash are on the right and the ride is on the left.

I am a left handed and play cross hands.

My strong hand is my left hand.

 

What if I switch to regular setup(not mirrored) and put the ride in the same side as the HH - i.e. left side?

This way playing open handed could be native for me.

 

My biggest concern are my legs.

I am playing one year now and switching everything can be a shock.  For the long term - having a normal setup is much better than a mirror one.

 

What do think? Suggest?

I have not tried it.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Eyal

[Mark]

I am right-handed and switched to open handed playing. Give it a go, it could be very liberating for you. You will probably catch on pretty fast. A lot of people say they wished they started open handed, here is your chance, if you so desire.

[Guest chantale]

Close your eyes and place your cymbals where your arms naturally go. This is the base and what still works best.🙂Open handed, cross handed, there will always be a problem somewhere, one way or another. I play open-handed and I have two rides, otherwise there's always a moment where I don't know how to position myself to make it comfortable. Seek to adjust your set up more than changing the way you play.

[David]

I'd say try it and see how it feels and give it a month. You might find you have to work on your feet a bit but I think you'll transition quite quickly at this stage if you find you like it.  Also if your current BD foot becomes your HH foot it's already had quite a bit of development so that might be helpful. If you find it all feels wrong and unbalance over the month you can always switch back and you've not wasted any time, it will be good for independence I would think

Looking back I wish I had made the switch when I was  starting out, as it is I'm now working on ghosting with my right hand as an exercise to improve hand independence.  I will be putting a fixed HH on my right again at some point, I've had one there before and it's a great additional voice to have.

[Kirstin]

12 hours ago, Eyal said:

What if I switch to regular setup(not mirrored) and put the ride in the same side as the HH - i.e. left side?

This way playing open handed could be native for me.

 

My biggest concern are my legs.

I think if give yourself a 30 day goal to try it out, you will like playing this way. It is a way to play with your dominant hand AND be able to play on any standard kit set-up at a friend's house or at a club. 

Also, maybe do it in increments so you don't overwhelm yourself at first. Maybe only move the HH and ride at first. See how you feel hatting and riding with your hand to your left. It is common practice for open handed players to place the ride on their left next to the HH, particularly if they are left handed. I have one on each side of my kit to keep my right hand at least familiar with riding if I'm on someone else's kit.

I wouldn't worry about the feet so much. It will feed odd and a uncoordinated at first, but it is easier to transition between legs than changing hands. Mostly because we do little in our daily lives that favors one leg over the other. The brain is also designed to easily move existing muscle memory from one side of the brain over to the other, faster than you learned it the first time.

Keep us updated!
  

[Eyal]

10 hours ago, Kirstin said:

It is a way to play with your dominant hand AND be able to play on any standard kit set-up at a friend's house or at a club

Exactly

10 hours ago, Kirstin said:

wouldn't worry about the feet so much. It will feed odd and a uncoordinated at first, but it is easier to transition between legs than changing hands.

I am happy to hear this. This is my main concern.

 

Thanks Kristin! You encouraged me a lot.

[Kirstin]

12 hours ago, Eyal said:

I am happy to hear this. This is my main concern.

No problem. I forgot to mention you will have to take some time to build up and tune those muscles in the right leg with your heel up and heel down exercises. Be patient with yourself 🙂

Edited January 4, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

After a week I decided to try.

My win for today is taking a decision.

It took me an hour though the location of the drums should still be adjusted.

The open handed feeling is ok with the hands, my weak leg needs some more power with the bass drum.

The most weird feeling is trying to open the HH back from the beginning. It took me more the half a year to get used it and now I need to practice my strong leg to do it. The strong leg is ok with HH chicks (even better than my weak leg).

 

Quick questions:

1 . The ride is located on the same side as the HH (both on the left side togrther with the snare). Where should I place the crash symbol?

2 . Which hand should be leading when playing the toms? i.e. when playing 8th notes on the toms, should ut be with my left hand which play the HH?

[Guest chantale]

40 minutes ago, Eyal said:

The ride is located on the same side as the HH (both on the left side togrther with the snare). Where should I place the crash symbol?

The crash that I use most often is on the right, (so for you, on the same side as the ride) but more forward, so I can see it out of the corner of my eye.

40 minutes ago, Eyal said:

Which hand should be leading when playing the toms? i.e. when playing 8th notes on the toms, should ut be with my left hand which play the HH?

When you play open hand, regardless of the side, access to toms is easier, in my opinion. Logically, you had to lower your HH. You must use the hand that allows you to play more easily with the least movement. For me, the floor tom is problematic if I do a roll (snare/tom/-FT) I do it from the middle to the left (for my set up) but mostly, I play on my FT on the right. If I play the same roll to the right, there is too much space and cymbals between my tom and my FT. I don't know if you understand what I mean. What solved my problem is to put 2. One on each side. I think it's really up to you to see how you are the most comfortable. It's a lot of adjustments but over time, you manage to find the way that suits you best. But playing open-handed allows you to play the toms with one hand or the other, so you can adapt your way of playing much more easily. I hope it helped you...

Edited January 13, 2023 by chantale

[Kirstin]

2 hours ago, Eyal said:

Quick questions:

1 . The ride is located on the same side as the HH (both on the left side togrther with the snare). Where should I place the crash symbol?

2 . Which hand should be leading when playing the toms? i.e. when playing 8th notes on the toms, should ut be with my left hand which play the HH?

Hello. Congrats on your win. Glad you are getting a good start with the open handed layout. 

As for your questions:

1. My crash 1 is directly to the left of Tom 1, about chest high. Crash 2 is also about chest high to the right of Tom 2. It is on an angled rod to bring it closer, somewhat overlapping the floor Tom. That said, you can put the crashes wherever feels comfortable to you. I find that I use crash 2 on the right way more than I use crash 1 on my left. I'm trying to get better about including it or I may eventually move it.

2. Whatever hand is leading is entirely up to you, though mechanics will dictate. There is no hard fast rule here as long as what you are doing works mechanically and it doesn't trip you up getting into--and out of the fill. One big mistake I made in the beginning is that I sweated the question of what to do with the hands waaaaay too much. I finally learned to just relax and enjoy myself and I let my hands tell me what they wanted to do. We started having a lot less arguments after that.

That said, on 8th and 16th note fills, I found it easiest not to force those one way or another. My transition from leading rolls left handed to right handed happened very organically while playing and I think it happened because I stopped trying think or force the issue. Coming off the HH for anything is going to naturally encourage you to start with your right hand. It was only after leading with the right came more natively that I started focusing on learning those 8th and 16th note trips around the kit, left to right. 

One suggestion that occurs to me is to play around with that fill called the Pat Boone Debbie Boone. It is in the very first beginner fill lesson that @Stephen gives in the Warrior Way. I find this fill to be the easiest beginner fill for an open hander to adopt and get creative with. It is also stylistically similar to what I see a lot of open hand pros doing with either one or both hands.

Secondly, Stephen has this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv3f1Emdn2w  One thing I have observed is that pro open handers enjoy using single stick fills a lot. It is a very stylistic thing with this crowd but I also think it is motivated by it being super easy to knock out a quick flourish right handed with doubles or Moeller sticking. I absolutely love this video and it is right up our alley.

How I adapt this to open hand is my rules are 1. left hand never leaves hat or ride.  2. I build the rules off the bass drum rather than the HH. When I get home, I'll see if I can get you a quick vid of the first basic pattern I adapted from his lesson.

  

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

2 hours ago, Kirstin said:

I'll see if I can get you a quick vid of the first basic pattern I adapted from his lesson.

Thanks a lot Kristin.

I an curious to see it. Thanks!

It is weird. I am going to play open handed with my strong hand on the HH 🙂

[Eyal]

3 hours ago, chantale said:

The crash that I use most often is on the right, (so for you, on the same side as the ride) but more forward, so I can see it out of the corner of my eye.

When you play open hand, regardless of the side, access to toms is easier, in my opinion. Logically, you had to lower your HH. You must use the hand that allows you to play more easily with the least movement. For me, the floor tom is problematic if I do a roll (snare/tom/-FT) I do it from the middle to the left (for my set up) but mostly, I play on my FT on the right. If I play the same roll to the right, there is too much space and cymbals between my tom and my FT. I don't know if you understand what I mean. What solved my problem is to put 2. One on each side. I think it's really up to you to see how you are the most comfortable. It's a lot of adjustments but over time, you manage to find the way that suits you best. But playing open-handed allows you to play the toms with one hand or the other, so you can adapt your way of playing much more easily. I hope it helped you...

Thanks a lot Chantale!

My setup now is right handed (standard) except for the ride location - i.e. it is located a bit left to tom1.

 

I have only one crash and wonder what side is better to start with.

[Kirstin]

10 minutes ago, Eyal said:

Thanks a lot Kristin.

I an curious to see it. Thanks!

It is weird. I am going to play open handed with my strong hand on the HH 🙂

I did find the concept very awkward at first. Having seen right handed drummers dominate all over the kit with their right hand, be it the HH, ride, or leading on fills; it made me really question if I'm genuinely playing left handed. Simon Phillips and Claus Hessler encouraged me to stop thinking about it in those terms. But I still have moments. 

As for the video, it may be Sunday before I get to it. I forgot it is Friday and hubby and I may go out for dinner and he's off work tomorrow. The video will be real primitive, regardless, with me holding the phone in my left hand while demonstrating with my right and playing my electronic kit acoustically. It's sure to be a treat.

[Eyal]

@Kirstin amd @chantale look what I found

 

[Kirstin]

His was one of the first vids I watched on the topic. I love me some Flamuel L. Jackson.

If you really want to get down in the weeds, track Claus Hessler whenever you can find him talking about it.  This guy wrote a book on the topic with Dom Famularo and to watch him you see how far you can go with it. 

https://www.facebook.com/drumeo/videos/5-benefits-of-open-handed-drumming-claus-hessler/752626841975525/

If you have a drumeo account, recommend you watch this video there along with the other lessons he has on Drumeo.

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Kirstin

[Eyal]

Here is another great video

 

[David]

I have started to learn ghosting with my right hand now, playing time on my left very awkward am but It will be useful.

[Eyal]

@Stephen I am interested to hear your opinion about open handed layout for a lefty on a standard kit (not mirrored).

I was playing my first year on the drums on a mirrored layout.

I found it tedious changing the kit every time I go to the practice room where I a classic kit (I have ekit at home).

1 . Where to put the ride? Left or right side?

2 . What to put the crash? Left side or right side?

3 . When starting a fill which hand leads? The left hand which plays the groove on the HH or the right hand?

 

Is the a course / quick tip video on

a. open handed

b. lefty hand

 

Thanks

Edited January 13, 2023 by Eyal

[Stephen]

@Eyalopen handed on a traditional setup is totally fine. Carter Beauford plays that way. A lot of creative options come up whenyou do that. Opens up the right hans to the toms. 

[Eyal]

Today was my first practice session with the new setup - 

My legs feel like the first days on the drum kit last year. Though there is one great advantage - both legs can learn new techniques.

My right leg can learn both heel up & heel down (with my left leg I got used to only heel up).

My left leg needs to learn from scrach to open the HH. This is tough again 🤦‍♂️

Rolling 16th notes on the sanre and the 3 toms while right hand leading is confusing.

It feel like it'll take sevral weeks.

I am starting the Beginner Track from lesson one. And will need to learn the songs I already learned again.

 

It is better to switch now (after one year) than later.

I'll keep you posted with my journey 🙂

Thanks for the encouragement everyone.

 

 

[Kirstin]

@Eyal I'm posting this embarrassing video for you, as promised. After a few failed starts with the phone and general lack of equipment, I decided this would be a drum only recording with my laptop. No talking. Hopefully you can still pick out what is going on.  The video amuses me because after so many false starts I was getting anxiety and my tempo suffered. My right leg is also doing its best to drag me up to the tempo I normally play this at 😅.

Basically, I do the most basic drum beat with non-stop 8ths on the hats. 1 and 3 on the bass, 2 and 4 on the snare. Anytime I hit beat 3 on the bass, play the rack toms on the & of 3 and the & of 4 while maintaining the snare drum on 4. then rinse and repeat.

Then I begin adding the floor tom which is on beat 1 with the bass drum. Then add the right crash on the & of 1.  The left hand crash gets added on the & of 2. So inspired by the first half of @Stephen's lesson but still a work in progress.  Also, if you want to make life interesting, play quarter notes on the hats. Then it becomes an independence exercise between your hands. That is how I normally play it.

Next challenge to myself is to partition the kit Claus Hessler style and play the same thing, only the right hand is not allowed to cross centerline. Left hand has to maintain the hats, the left tom, and the left hand crash. And maybe, in certain instances, the snare 😨Gonna be fun!

For demonstration purposes, I put a lot of gap in between each round so you have time to digest what you are seeing. One way or another, I hope this gives you some ideas. 
 

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Kirstin
adding links

[Eyal]

1 hour ago, Kirstin said:

@Eyal I'm posting this embarrassing video for you, as promised. After a few failed starts with the phone and general lack of equipment, I decided this would be a drum only recording with my laptop. No talking. Hopefully you can still pick out what is going on.  The video amuses me because after so many false starts I was getting anxiety and my tempo suffered. My right leg is also doing its best to drag me up to the tempo I normally play this at 😅.

Basically, I do the most basic drum beat with non-stop 8ths on the hats. 1 and 3 on the bass, 2 and 4 on the snare. Anytime I hit beat 3 on the bass, play the rack toms on the & of 3 and the & of 4 while maintaining the snare drum on 4. then rinse and repeat.

Then I begin adding the floor tom which is on beat 1 with the bass drum. Then add the right crash on the & of 1.  The left hand crash gets added on the & of 2. So inspired by the first half of @Stephen's lesson but still a work in progress.  Also, if you want to make life interesting, play quarter notes on the hats. Then it becomes an independence exercise between your hands. That is how I normally play it.

Next challenge to myself is to partition the kit Claus Hessler style and play the same thing, only the right hand is not allowed to cross centerline. Left hand has to maintain the hats, the left tom, and the left hand crash. And maybe, in certain instances, the snare 😨Gonna be fun!

For demonstration purposes, I put a lot of gap in between each round so you have time to digest what you are seeing. One way or another, I hope this gives you some ideas. 
 

 

@Kirstin I appreciate your effort to send this video so much.

It is exactly what I was looking for.

1 . I forgot, are you left handed as well?

2 . When you play 16th notes on the HH with two hand, which hand leads? i.e. which hand plays the snare on 2 & 4?

Edited January 15, 2023 by Eyal

[Kirstin]

6 minutes ago, Eyal said:

@Kirstin I appreciate your effort to send this video so much.

It is exactly what I was looking for.

1 . I forgot, are you left handed as well?

2 . When you play 16th notes on the HH with two hand, which hand leads? i.e. which hand plays the snare on 2 & 4?

1. I was born left handed but forced to use my right for writing, scissors or whatnot. I doubt I qualify as ambidextrous but I'm strongly mixed handed.

2. I lead with the right so that timing wise, my right hand can drop onto the snare on the 2 & 4. It took me over a week to encourage my left hand to stop trying to lead on this one. A few more months of working with it and it is fully in muscle memory and I don't have to think about it. 

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Kirstin said:

@Eyal I'm posting this embarrassing video for you, as promised. After a few failed starts with the phone and general lack of equipment, I decided this would be a drum only recording with my laptop. No talking. Hopefully you can still pick out what is going on.  The video amuses me because after so many false starts I was getting anxiety and my tempo suffered. My right leg is also doing its best to drag me up to the tempo I normally play this at 😅.

Basically, I do the most basic drum beat with non-stop 8ths on the hats. 1 and 3 on the bass, 2 and 4 on the snare. Anytime I hit beat 3 on the bass, play the rack toms on the & of 3 and the & of 4 while maintaining the snare drum on 4. then rinse and repeat.

Then I begin adding the floor tom which is on beat 1 with the bass drum. Then add the right crash on the & of 1.  The left hand crash gets added on the & of 2. So inspired by the first half of @Stephen's lesson but still a work in progress.  Also, if you want to make life interesting, play quarter notes on the hats. Then it becomes an independence exercise between your hands. That is how I normally play it.

Next challenge to myself is to partition the kit Claus Hessler style and play the same thing, only the right hand is not allowed to cross centerline. Left hand has to maintain the hats, the left tom, and the left hand crash. And maybe, in certain instances, the snare 😨Gonna be fun!

For demonstration purposes, I put a lot of gap in between each round so you have time to digest what you are seeing. One way or another, I hope this gives you some ideas. 
 

 

I am absolutely going to incorporate this into my practice session, thanks!

[Eyal]

Today I started letting my left foot dealing with opening the HH.

At first it was wierd because my left foot could not move 🙂 I chose the money beat and try to simply open the HH on the & of 4.

After a couple of minutes, it worked. At first I did not understand what made this change, then I realized that my right foot (which was responsible for opening the HH until few days ago) helped my left foot and did the same motion synchronously. It worked great when the right foot was heel down, but when it was heel up this 'helping motion' could not happen.

 

Well, my next month will be a kind of deja vous for the first days on the drums. Everything feels brand new.

I built a weekly plan and hope to achieve it.

Just a few days ago, I could play songs and played my warm up automatically. All these things should re-built from scratch again.

It is a bit frustrated, though the big goal of playing on a standard kit layout gives me motivation.

And all of your encouragement is helping me so much.

Thanks!